Inside the Collective | Origin Sessions 05 | Patrick Carr | Safe Content, Same Old Stuff

In this episode of Inside the Collective, Brad Amos sits down with Patrick Carr, who has built a career across China, Bangkok and the wider global media industry, working on stories designed to travel without losing their humanity.

Patrick reflects on China's creative rise, the projects that helped audiences see more than headlines, and the commissioning culture that now pushes so much content toward the safe, familiar and easily marketable. He talks candidly about why too many streamers are making the same old stuff, what gets lost when originality is squeezed out, and why the future of good creative work still depends on bridge-building, perspective and values, not just technology.
A conversation about storytelling with heart, and what it takes to keep making work that matters.

This episode is part of the Origin Sessions, the first six conversations that shaped Inside the Collective before Season 1. Recorded early and released as a set, they capture the show finding its voice.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Welcome to Inside the Collective, where we dig into the thinking behind how people work. A quick note before we get started, this is one of our origin sessions. Early conversations recorded when the show was still finding its shape. It's grown since then, but the thinking in these still holds up. If you want, jump to season one, episode one, or stick around for this origin session. Production's a little rougher, but the conversation's worth it. Let's get started. Welcome to Inside the Collective, uh, the show where we connect with people who are not just shaping their industries, but reimagining how we live and work together. Um, today's guest is Patrick Carr. Patrick went from Oxford to Bain and Company into the world of filmmaking, where he's produced some of the most ambitious international projects to come out of China through Mandarin Films. He's worked with Netflix, National Geographic, BBC, and Amazon, developing bold new stories for the big five streamers. And this year he's joined Care Collective as a partner, helping shape the future of distributed creativity. Patrick, thank you so much for being here. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_02 1:11

It's a very it's my pleasure to be here too.

SPEAKER_00 1:14

Um we're gonna uh warm up by doing a little rapid fire. So don't don't give this much thought. Simple this or that. Uh Beijing or Bangkok? Bangkok. Documentary or drama? Documentary all the way. Oxford Library or Film Set Hustle.

SPEAKER_02 1:36

Film set hustle.

SPEAKER_00 1:38

Strategy deck or storyboards?

SPEAKER_02 1:47

Strategy deck.

SPEAKER_00 1:50

Uh shooting at dawn or shooting at dusk?

SPEAKER_01 1:56

Oh no, they're not easy these ones. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:59

Uh gotta love the sunset. Yes, I think that's better for cocktails.

SPEAKER_00 2:06

Um Netflix binge or cinema experience? Netflix binge editing room or on location. On location. Pets or kids on set.

SPEAKER_01 2:23

What pets or kids? Oh, neither, neither are good. Uh oh, that's a really hard one.

SPEAKER_00 2:31

Um kids just I'll uh I'll take it. I'll take it. Awesome. Thanks, thanks for playing along. I love to just random sin.

SPEAKER_02 2:44

You really put me on the spot there.

SPEAKER_00 2:45

I thought they were gonna be easier than that. Uh well, you know, I want to make I want to make it a little bit challenging to get things going. Awesome. Um, I want to start off by looking at some of your past work. So let's start by going back to 2006 when you launched um Mandarin Films and quickly found yourself at the center of some groundbreaking projects in China. What was it like being a forum producer at that moment in time when so much was opening? Uh opening up creatively, but they were still full of barriers.

SPEAKER_02 3:16

Yes. I mean, I think um I often talk to friends and you know, old collab collaborators, partners about that period as being the golden period of China, you know. Um I'd studied Chinese. I studied at Oxford from 96 to 2000, and then I went into sort of the corporate world a little bit, um, but found my way back to China and and started my company around that time, 2006. And um China was, you know, having, you know, when I when I when I decided to study Chinese in 1995, 96, I got a lot of kind of blank expressions, and you know, people could not understand why, why, why the hell I'd want to, you know, study this language and go to this place that was so kind of cut off from the rest of the world and seems so alien and um lacking in opportunity. Um and as I was studying, you know, I think China started to come out of its shell, started to come out of its um, you know, uh long period of isolationism. And um, by the time 2006 came around, it was sort of very buzzy actually. And 2008, the China uh the Beijing Olympics was just around the corner. So um it felt it felt super exciting to be there. Um, there were a lot of sort of Westerners, Western companies, Western ideas pouring into China and getting to know China, and the Chinese were also sort of very excited and welcoming to Westerners, and so it was a real sort of heady mix of um of opportunity. There was a lot of get rich crick kind of people there, but there were also you know um people who thought deeply about you know uh the uh the implications if China really did become a superpower and were were anxious to sort of get in at the ground floor. So yeah, there was there was a real buzz about the time there, and it was super exciting to be making programs there. And actually there was a lot of interest. So um, you know, uh people were taking whatever you could give them um at that point, which was uh super exciting.

SPEAKER_00 5:33

So, which project from that early area era really shifted how you thought about storytelling in China?

SPEAKER_02 5:41

Uh so I mean we did uh quite a few things at that time with the BBC. Um we did a show called China School, which was um sounds sounds a bit boring, but um it was actually an observational documentary, quite a big one, I think eight parts, eight times hour, and it was shown fairly prime timey in in in in in the UK. And um, we felt really proud of it because it was something, you know, there's always been this issue with China that um it gets a bad press as people, you know, uh for you know sometimes deservedly, but I think not always deservedly. And um, you know, uh I think tended to be in those times that the only the only things people knew about China were the the three T's, which was Tibet, Tiananmen, and Kaiwan. And um, you know, that was as sort of far as it went. And um me having spent a lot of time in China um during my studies, um I felt that China had so much more to offer the world, um, and the world had so much more to understand about China. And um, I think through this series, uh China School, it really did open people's eyes to what life was like in China, how these young people um lived and and you know, lived and loved and were in families and had many of the same ambitions that um that they did, uh, how hard working the teachers were, um, and you know, uh what an interesting place it was, I think. And it was beautiful as well. We shot in a in a wonderful part of China for actually we were there for a year. So um, so yeah, I loved that. Um really seminal part of my filmmaking kind of um background and and and upbringing. And um I learned a lot, and you know, that'll all still always stay with me. And I think that was a beautiful time in the relationship between China and the rest of the world because it was it was just a sort of getting to know you um slightly naive time.

SPEAKER_00 7:46

Feels like you were able to bring some humanity behind the the headlines of just those three kind of yeah, that's right.

SPEAKER_02 7:52

And I think that's what I've always hoped to do with all the projects that we've been making over the years at Mandarin Film, which is the company I made, you know, um not trying to take a side, you know, not trying to bang a drum for for one side or the other, but just to show, like you said, Brad, show show the humanity, show the shared values, um show the you know the the wonderful things about China that people maybe haven't heard about and didn't know about and might therefore you know think slightly differently rather than thinking you know so black and white about the sort of geopolitics of the whole thing.

SPEAKER_00 8:35

You've um you've been behind works like Before the Flood, Skyladder, The Earth One Amazing Day. If we stripped away the logos and broadcasters, yeah, what do you think made those projects stand out?

SPEAKER_02 8:50

Uh they're all a bit different. So um I'll just just run run very quickly through the three of them and then you know maybe try and pull out some similarities or what what drew them together. So uh before the flood was the Leonardo DiCaprio um documentary, which would become, I think, the most watched National Geographic documentary ever. Um, and he was um um trying to draw people's attention to uh you know climate change and some of the um solutions as well as the problems of climate change, not particularly helped by him flying around the world in his own private jet with his with his huge entourage. But um of that aside, um you know, uh I obviously China was a huge part of that, still is. Um, and I think he was was coming to China to try to show some of the stories for better and worse. You know, for a long time China was viewed and still is as as part of the problem. Uh, I think we're all part of the problem. Um, but you know, people didn't really focus on the fact that China was also part of the solution and probably a disproportionately large part of the solution. And what's what was happening then in China and still going on now is is is really incredible and still doesn't get the sort of attention it it deserves, really. Anyway, that's before the flood, which was a sort of feature uh feature stamp documentary. Then we did um Earth Emit One Amazing Day, which was the story, a natural history story uh of one day in the life of the world. And um I think um interesting uh that I think in the past China wouldn't have got much of a mention in that kind of show, you know, there are more flashy and beautiful, you know, amazing kind of uh places around the world to film natural history. Um but I think because China um because of China's importance, you know, geopolitically, but also in this kind of uh um in the sort of uh environmental conversation, um it was it was much more um uh a much larger part of the show. And I think also at that time, you know, uh China's box office was was about to overtake the US box office in value. And uh the BBC, you know, I actually their natural history shows are very popular in China, and um they saw an opportunity to do something, do a Chinese version, and we got Jackie Chan to do the narration. And um, and it became the sort of I think it was the second biggest um grossing documentary ever in China. Um and uh it was the first uh international co-production between between China and uh an international partner in this case, the BBC. So um, so I think that was that was a big deal, and that that's why that's why we did that. And um, what was the third one you mentioned? What was the third Skyladder? So Skyladder, um that's a net Netflix feature doc. Uh Sai Gor Chang, real uh well, I don't know how famous he is outside China. I think he's I think he's still quite famous, but he's uh he does these uh art installations, our artworks with uh with fireworks often outside, huge, kind of um amazing, beautiful um uh I guess art pieces using using fireworks. And uh we did a story on him. He was very up and coming in the art world, and China was taking the art world by storm at that time. I think that's why Netflix probably um commissioned it. And um, amazing story of this guy from quite a poor part of China, who became you know one of the one of the biggest artists in the world. Um, so I think probably what draws all those together is is really sort of uh uh the West's kind of um growing interest in China and um the desire to you know know more about China and understand more about China. And you know, that's something three projects I'm super proud to have been a part of.

SPEAKER_00 13:18

Appreciate those insights. Let's let's fast forward a bit uh in more recent years, around the time you were starting uh 24-7 Pictures, right in the middle of a huge shift, right? Streamers racing to invest in Asian originals. When you're pitching or shaping content for Netflix or Disney, what do you think they're really buying? Is it authentic authenticity, scale, local nuance, um global crossover appeal? What what what what's driving it home for them? Um I don't know whether I should give you the cynical answer or the uh or the idea like inside the collective, it's so you know we're trying.

SPEAKER_02 14:02

I mean, um it can be very frustrating um picturing projects to commissioners because often they can't see um the value of something until it's been made, you know, and until people have seen seen the show. I mean it's not it's it's understandable, you know, they get pitched so many projects and um when something's a little bit further out there, or it's you could you know people creatives have a vision, but uh you know, it's their it's also their job to sort of try to to to uh articulate and show that vision to a commissioner who increasingly is all about targets, you know, is all about um eyeballs on the screen and you know uh having content that um works with their different brand partners and and you know and and uh fits within kind of uh the boxes that they have to tick. Um so you know, sorry if that sounds cynical, because you know, but it's that's that's the sort of product of I guess you know 20 years of pitching to commissioning uh commissioners, not not just at streamers, but elsewhere as well. Um and you know, I I think in my in my career I've seen so many changes in the industry. You know, I came in when um TV was was real, really king, and um and content was king. And if you had great content, then you know you had quite a few different options of getting stuff onto TV. Uh advertising revenues were good, and they could, you know, uh they were they were sort of crying out for um content that they could um get onto onto screen and and um rev up their advertising revenues. So that that was really uh uh uh interesting time. I came probably towards the end of that real golden period. Uh and also at the same time, there were big national broadcasters who who weren't so worried about the bottom line and could take some risks and show uh um projects that were they felt were were of national interest or were of interest for an audience that they felt you know the audience should should be watching rather than you know rather um than necessarily wanted to watch. So so those those were the those that was what I came in. And then stream at the streaming world sort of came and swept that all away. And um it was more about the kind of algorithms um and about kind of uh what audience they were aiming for and whether they could get the content and the kind of lineup of of pro programming that would attract that audience. And that but that's also been through a lot of different uh phases. So it went from um probably more from more global uh uh projects with more global appeal to to much more hyper hyper local projects these days, where you're really just trying going after your audience in that in that country, and also even just that sort of subset of kind of middle class um audience who can afford the subscription and who are the sort of biggest viewers of of that kind that type of content. Um and now and now we're in the world of of um of uh TikTok and YouTube and you know and and and even AI now. So, you know, things have become more and more splintered, um, content creators everywhere, everyone's a content creator, um, including my kids, and they love to tell me how many more views they get than uh Mike Joe's. And um, you know, and and that must be humbling. Yeah. Um no, it's it's actually it's actually great to have two kids who who are consuming media, well, you know, in the ways that kids consume media these days, because it's a real eye-opener and uh, yeah, as you say, probably a humbling experience every day to see what they're watching versus you know what we're making. You know, there's a there's a larger and larger disconnect, I'd say. So um so yeah, so that that's that's where we're at now, and and that's what's keeps us all on our toes, and that's why it's very exciting, but also, you know, quite scary. And you know, we're all trying to figure out what's next. Um, and just as you're trying to, just as you're figuring out what's next, it's already moved on, you know, another five, five steps. So, you know, um yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:47

The down to dinner and the table's been reset completely. Uh it leads me to uh uh another question around where do you see creative gaps and and what do you make what do you wish more of the big platforms invested in to make projects really sing or stand out?

SPEAKER_02 19:02

Yeah, I mean, I I still think that uh commissioners are too sorry to be don't kick the boot in, but they're they're too timid, they have amazingly huge budgets, and you know, the world is their oyster, really. Um, and they're just really kicking out the same same old content, safe content. Though they'd rather do a you know, a hundred million show with a big name talent rather than sort of 10 really amazing original shows, one of which might be, you know, um the next big thing. I mean, I I recently saw, I don't know if you saw um Adolescence, um the UK drama, and you know, I felt that that's something that streamers should be doing way more of. You know, I was actually just last night was flicking through the I I I have all of the streamers on my TV, you know, and flicking through, and I literally couldn't find a a series that I wanted to watch having seen adolescence. I was like, you know, that's something really amazing. It's quite rare, and it shouldn't be as rare as that, you know. So so I think there's there's that there's gaps there. I think there is amazingly huge creative talents in our industry. Um makes me sad when we make the same old stuff. Um Netflix Thailand um stopped doing any unscripted projects um about three or four years ago and doesn't doesn't have any plans to do any um in the future. I think that's a real shame. And um I think it's also a mistake. I think people do want a variety of things on their streaming service, otherwise it's all just becomes the same old stuff. So so yeah, so I'd say there's a couple of you know, a couple of things that stand out for me, you know, and I think if you really do want to, you know, these these streamers also have a responsibility for the next, you know, nurturing the next generation of of talent and filmmakers, and um just to keep on going back to the same old guys and the safe options feels feels quite cowardly.

SPEAKER_00 21:21

Um it it's interesting, right? I feel like a lot of the people that you know, the circles that we run in, everybody has every streaming service but spends as much time trying to find something to watch as watching. Yeah. Um so recently you joined um Carrot Collective, um, which is obviously why we've got you here. Uh and the idea of fully distributed creative um collection feels a little bit different, um, kind of storytelling and an experiment in that. What excites you about this model compared to traditional production structures?

SPEAKER_02 21:55

I mean, I think we we everyone needs all the help they can get these days. Um Um, you know, uh the our industry, the media, film, TV, uh advertising industry, uh has really just you know been uh knocked sideways and upside down with with AI. Um and I think it's just the start. You know, um that's not going anywhere and it's only gonna get more disruptive rather than less. Um but I I do believe that it's um it's important for um the leaders of the industry to to lead this new paradigm and this new uh way of working in AI and and and and to bring the values that we you know that we've nurtured and and um and our experience to bear on this new amazing technology, you know. So um I think it's really interesting for me with Carrot Collective because it takes me out of my little silo, probably, of of my industry, and it puts me together with um others from lots of different other industries, but um, who are maybe experiencing similar you know disruptions to their own. And um, you know, together you can kind of find new solutions that are kind of in in keeping with our our new disrupted world.

SPEAKER_00 23:31

And thinking about um splitting your time between Beijing and Bangkok, you've you've built this career at the crossroads of sort of east and west. Um, how has living between cultures shaped the way you approach creativity?

SPEAKER_02 23:47

Um I love I love living. Um, you know, I I don't even feel that I live abroad anymore. You know, I don't feel that English, although obviously kept the accents, but um, you know, I've lived I've lived uh abroad longer than I've lived in the UK now. So um uh I I love the I love the ability to work with um lots of different nationalities. Um I feel like Bangkok is going through a real moment right now. Um in my industry, but also in many in many industries. I think um Bangkok is really having uh having a moment of um of quite a lot of kind of young and creative and very talented people coming together and and creating and and doing special things and creating special things here. Um so that makes me super excited. Um I think uh Bangkok's a huge melting pot, and you know, I fit fit right in there. You know, my kids are sort of mixed, mixed race, mixed cultures, and um, you know, I love I love being here and uh it really energizes me. And I think it's also uh it feels like the right place to be, and it feels like um um the world is is only going in that direction. So it's it's important, you know, uh skill set for my kids as well to just feel international, feel like what happens across the world um actually uh is affects them too, but also um that they have the kind of ability to um to to affect that back and um to to bring change, you know, not just locally, but you know, to be a part of a global community. Uh and that's that's what the character collector feels like too. So that aligns very nicely for me.

SPEAKER_00 25:44

So um you you you are seguing perfect into each next question. It's like you read it, read my questions, but I didn't want the questions right, right. No, I and I appreciate how how you just laying into them. I love it. So okay. When you look back one day, what do you want people to say about how you've helped shift, um, how you've helped shift in how Asian stories are told on a world stage.

SPEAKER_02 26:10

Okay, I mean uh that's uh that's a in in in today's in today's modern age, it's a little it's a little bit of a touchy subject, I'd say that one, you know, because um I'm clearly not Asian. Um and you know, I think uh I agree that um that Asian stories should be told, you know, by by local people, you know, as much as possible. Um having said that, I'm also you know, very international, and you know, I think there are there is room for bringing international expertise and in international perspectives to projects to to help them shine or to bring them reach or to you know to help them um well in in many different ways. So um, you know, my my goal was always to sort of be building these bridges between um well originally it was between China and um and the U and the West. And um, you know, I think it will continue to be that way, you know, just to to continue to build bridges between Asia and um and the West to continue to um um create new opportunities and partnerships um globally. And uh, you know, for example, we're I'm just in the process of um hopefully bringing uh uh a really big international conference which has you know the absolute best of the best sort of broadcasters and commissioners and and producers and directors from around the world, and hoping to bring them here to to Bangkok next year, um, you know, which I think is you know so important to you know to keep that sort of international um networking and collaboration going. Um and then also uh it there's there's there's a strong emphasis on um um giving local filmmakers a lift, uh uh uh a help, a helping hand, mentoring and bringing more and more of the younger generation. You might not have had the opportunity to do it, bringing them into that that um that international global conversation. So that's what I'd love to keep doing. I hope if I look back on my career, I can say I helped in some very, very small parts, you know. Um it goes up and down, you know, when you when you look back at your career, you know, sometimes you feel proud, sometimes you feel like you could have done more, sometimes you wonder if it was all worth it, you know. But um, but yeah, I mean it's been a fun ride for sure.

SPEAKER_00 29:07

I mean, it feels like just the very nature that you are thinking about it in that way means that you are making a difference. I want to um I want to uh roll to our traditional closing question just so I'm respectful of your time. Um what would you do if you were not afraid?

SPEAKER_02 29:26

Uh I probably start um a YouTube channel. Um yeah, maybe learn some juggling skill or you know, I don't know, like uh I don't know. Yeah, something like that. I I think um I sometimes uh I still think I'm sort of in my 20s. Um and so you know, still think I can sort of do anything and everything's sort of stretching out ahead of me. And sometimes I have to realize that you know, that's maybe more for the young kids, that's the next generation that's for them to do. And my role is to, you know, uh guide or help where I can, facilitate where I can, um, but leave it to the next generation. So I get I guess um something something around AI, social media, um just throw it throwing myself fully into that. Well, you let us know if you do start that uh juggling YouTube channel. Yes, I will. Okay, well, maybe that's the next instalment. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:34

Uh so these conversations like the one we've had with Patrick tonight are about helping us work together. So, Patrick, thank you so much for sharing your story and how you see things. And we are all very excited to see what you do next, YouTube juggling or conference or whatever it may be. Um thank you so much for your time. Twitter. Yeah, thank you.